Welcome to Twin Peaks
A Twin Peaks podcast for beginners. Join hosts (and best friends from the age of 12) Adam and Steve as they watch Twin Peaks together and discuss each episode in turn. Adam is a long-time fan, while Steve has never seen it before, so expect rambly thoughts as they talk through theories, characters, behind-the-scenes trivia, VIBES, and coffee. Whether you're a super-fan or this is your first time watching, all are welcome at Welcome to Twin Peaks.
Welcome to Twin Peaks
Zen, or the Skill to Catch a Killer
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Welcome to Welcome to Twin Peaks: A Twin Peaks Podcast for Beginners.
Join Adam and Steve as they put on their investigation trenchcoats, pour a hot steaming cup of coffee, and dive into the world of Twin Peaks.
This week, they discuss the third episode of season one - Zen, or the Skill to Catch a Killer. They talk about the various qualities different directors can bring to an episode, the mysterious "red room", and spontaneous dancing.
They continue to attempt to unravel the mystery, decipher the clues, and review the episode, which Adam has seen many times before and Steve has never seen in his life!
We'll be back next week and we’ll discuss the next episode of Twin Peaks - Rest in Pain.
In the meantime…
Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/welcometotwinpeaksuk
Visit our website: https://welcometotwinpeaks.buzzsprout.com/
Welcome to welcome to Twin Peaks, uh Twinkie Peaks podcast for beginners. What just what hey? Hey now. Hey now.
SPEAKER_01What um right, right now that's Twin Peaks. That's Twin Peaks. To me, that's one of the most iconic images or sections from Twin Peaks, I would say. I'm I've seen that imagery before. I may have even seen that scene before on YouTube. You you might have also seen it uh parodied in The Simpsons. That yes, 100%. And all sorts of stuff like that. The backwards talking, um the the character name of of the guy in the red suit uh is the man from another place. Okay. Um no I'm scared. The yeah it is it is uh scary. It's alarming. It's like medium scary. Yeah, yeah. Um d that whole episode in in general, um, and hang on, actually, we should we should uh talk about I'm Adam Scott Glaspool. And I'm Steve Murphy. Hello. Uh we should talk about what uh episodes that we're talking about, because I've got it and I've got it written down. Um it's episode three, but episode two. Look, let's not get started on any of that shit, right? Okay, so this uh we're we're gonna be talking about uh what we're gonna call the third episode of season one. Yeah. Um it's called Zen or the uh skill to catch a killer, I believe. I believe that's what it's called. Yeah. Zen or the skill to catch a killer. Um written by David Lynch and Mark Frost. Of course. This one had you know, compared to the last episode we watched, where I think what we said about episode two was it was very plot driven. Very plot, not a lot of vibe compared to the the pilot, right? A lot of dialogue scenes, yeah, not as much artistic direction. Now this one, yeah, I think this is one of the I think this is much better than episode two. I agree, I really enjoyed this one. And it had more of a vibe, yeah, and I'll tell you for why. Directed by David Lynch. David Lynch. Okay, that makes sense. I think you can see UmC less rigidity uh in the episode. One of our favourite moments was obviously an ad lib, you know? So yeah. And David Lynch is quite happy to let leave those things in, yeah. They will stick to the script. Yeah. And David Lynch is a bit more free-flow, uh, a bit more let's see what happens on the day. The bit we're obviously talking about is Is where um Coop and I forget his name. Harry Harry are it should be easy to remember, Harry S. Truman. The uh his colleague has arrived and he says Puts his hand on his shoulder. And what does he say to him? He's lacking in the social niceties or whatever it is, puts his hand on his shoulder, and then a couple of beats looks at his hand, and then he just sort of tweaks his nose and goes and they both crease up. It's so good, and but like now, obviously it's very funny, and that's lovely to see, but also that has just made me love those guys as bros. It's a nice relationship builder, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which I think is great, and I just sort of I just want to be mates with them, or just watch them being mates.
SPEAKER_01It comes in the same episode where like um Cooper has kind of started to reveal that he's maybe not uh I would say a lot of his some of his techniques are not uh sanctioned by the FBI. No, I don't think so. They're not the typical sort of things. There's a lot of I noticed in this episode there's a lot of Fox Mulder in him. Yes you can see where Fox Mulder comes from, I think if you watch it. Spooky Cooper. Yeah, he's he's spooky. Yeah. Um but we should let's not, you know, let's not go way ahead. Let's not go way ahead. How did you feel about the episode? How did it make you feel? Uh I mean the last what like five or ten minutes, sort of afraid.
SPEAKER_02But otherwise, like I kind of just it was it was a bit of everything, wasn't it? Because we had a bit of comedy, we had a bit of uh sort of lynchian kind of surrealism at the end there, but then but you also get like really long extended periods of like horrific grief shown.
SPEAKER_01Yes that's what I missed from the second episode, I think. Yeah. Was just the emotional beats that David Lynch leaves in.
SPEAKER_02You get you get a bit of plot, but actually not that much. Like when you let me know.
SPEAKER_01I think we've we've advanced a surprising amount, it just feels very natural.
SPEAKER_02I think yes, but then I think that was a lot at the beginning of the episode, right? So you get um we're introduced to a new character.
SPEAKER_01We're introduced to a few new characters. I love that they're still introducing characters in episode three. And I love how we're like four hours in, and they're like, no, there's more people. Yeah, they're all weirder than the last guy. And actually, like again, well, I say kind of putting you off the scent of the last episode, but a little bit. Um speak on that. How do you mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, like, there was I don't know, but they didn't advance it more uh for Leo. Leon or Leo?
SPEAKER_00Leo.
SPEAKER_02In terms of Badman still still is a bad man. He's still Badman.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, bad man. And but and we don't know anything more about his connection to Laura. That's what I mean, yeah. I think maybe we we suspect that there is a deeper connection. There's that bit where they're in the woods and he's um right the driver's saying Laura is a wild girl was a wild girl. Yeah. And Bobby's like, tell me about it. And Leo's like, maybe one day I will, which is like implying that he did know her or about her. Yeah. You know, there's something going on there. And of course the bottle smashes of his name. But we'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll get to that. You're right. We we open with um Ben Horn, Ben Horn's family. Yeah, right. Extended. An extended awkward dinner thing, which I think is great. I love that Lynch does stuff like that, and he just leaves the camera where it is, and they're just awkwardly having dinner, and then it's his brother, right? His brother comes back from Paris, his brother, Jerry. Ben and Jerry. Ben and Jerry, yeah, yeah, good. It's good. It's all good. Now the ice cream definitely existed in 1990, right? It did, right. I don't know. I think they're hippies. Um yeah, so good stuff. Um he's introduced like uh a wacky sitcom character, the way he kind of bursts through the door in his bow tie with a bunch of sandwiches. Yeah. Oh wow my god, the sandwiches. What is that scene? I mean, I uh opened the episode as well where he's just like and they're kind of sniffing the baguette and then just kind of devouring it. Really lovingly making love to the sandwich, and then talking with his mouthful to his brother, being like, Do you know what this reminds me of? Yeah. Yeah. Bizarre. But then they do get down to business. Oh, yeah, yeah. Again, again, again, vibes shift. It's like this quite um comedic bit with the sandwiches, and then he's like, um Leland Palmer's daughter was murdered, yeah, yeah. And also the Norwegians have left. Yeah, of course. And obviously, his Jerry's worry is about the Norwegians. Yeah, yeah. It's like a toss-off at the end, he goes like, Oh, did you say that Leland Palmer's daughter was murdered? Yeah. Well, I'm depressed. Now, what's the cure for depression, Steve? Uh, to go to a brothel, it turns out, yeah. Yeah. Um, and there's a 50-50 chance if he'll get first dibs on the new girl. And then again, and then we immediately just get grim. What do we know about the new girl? Uh are we supposed to know who the new girl is? No, but we do we he did say something about her. Oh, I can't remember. Go on. Um freshly centered from the uh perfume counter.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. So Which is where uh Renette Pelaski worked.
SPEAKER_01Right. The girl who's currently in a coma. Oh, of course, okay. Yeah, yes. So both of those pieces of information. Actually, I think Renette's old job was revealed in the last episode, but there's no reason that you'd really note it down. Yeah. Uh but they bring up that the new girl at One Eyed Jags, which is the name of the brothel, is uh was you know, works at the perfume counter in the local uh department store. Um and then later on Hawke, who is the Native American deputy whose name I couldn't remember last week. Remember now. Um Hawk reaffirms it later on in the episode, says Renette Pelaski worked at the uh perfume counter. Yeah. So there's a little connection there between one of the people who came very close to being a victim along with Laura Palmer and this new girl at One Eyed Jack's. Yeah. So this place is over the border in Canada, right? It's over the border in Canada. It seems like you I don't know if you need a boat to get there, but they definitely have a boat to get there. It's a very fast boat, actually. Because they definitely sped up the footage. No, no, no. It's this it's just a very fast footage. Okay, sorry, yeah. Okay, that's such a like a fucking 60s movie making technique. You know, when you see a car chase, it's obviously been sped up. Yeah, this needs to look a bit better. I love that shit so much. Um One-Eyed Jack's is uh a horrible place. Yeah. Um so it's fronted as a casino, they call it a casino later, it's a casino, yes, but then you've got the the other arm of it, which is where Ben and Jerry Which is where Ben and Jerry go. Um The Ice Cream Brothers. Yeah. Uh which is where they go to um have sex with young girls, I suppose. She's very young. Yes, it's very, very much it that whole scene is kind of super grim. Horrible. It's yeah, it I just made me feel so uneasy because you can this new girl as well, she's she's scared a bit by by Ben and kind of just it oh it's so grim. I mean And he starts reciting um a sonnet, doesn't he? A Shakespeare sonnet the the the Madre D. Yeah, Mad yeah Matre D. Matre D. Matre D.
SPEAKER_00The Matre D.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, is that not right? Matre D is the the person in charge of the waiters at restaurants.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Matre D.
SPEAKER_01Um I think she's the Madame. I don't know if she owns it. Uh I don't know if that even comes up. Um sorry, I'm just gonna have a sip of my this this damn coffee. He is actually having a coffee. Yeah. But we're recording. Was it was it good? It was if you don't mind me saying, oh I've dropped that. It was a damn cup of coffee coffee. You didn't spit it out, I noticed. Uh yeah, that's true. So because apparently you did it when it's something so good. No, it's because it's too hot. Right. He says it's it's damn good coffee and hot. Yeah, yeah. Um Yes, they flip a coin to determine who gets to have a go on the new girl first. Yeah, which is just all kinds of grim. Now she is right to be scared because the actor playing Ben Horn in this episode has leaned so far into soap opera villain. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. It's incredible. The bit where he is reciting the sonnet and he's got his hands all over Blackie and he's like closing his eyes and moving his head in a certain way, just pure like cheesy soap opera vibes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, or like 80s movie villain, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01But it's connected to something that is genuinely really dark, yeah, yeah. Which is this in it's it's an interesting it's an interesting sort of tonal thing that this show has to hold. I think David Lynch does it really well. I think that um the deeper we get into this show and potentially the more that we learn about uh David Lynch, you might learn why he like is just one of my favourite directors for portraying um uh women in trouble, can I say there's a lot of women screaming in his that's definitely a motif for him, but yeah. I mean when you if you learn like if you learn a little bit more about David Lynch and he d he he talks about his um one of his first experiences of like sexuality being um he was like playing in his like front garden when he was quite young and he saw a woman completely naked, emerging from a bush, covered in blood and screaming. Oh and you're just like, oh, that's David Lynch. That's like his whole origin story, yeah, yeah, pretty much. Like how Spider-Man gets bitten by a spider. Yeah. You're just like, oh, that's his career. Yeah. Like in one thing. I think he's used that image in a couple of movies as well. Certainly in blue velvet. Potent, yeah. Wow, okay, that's interesting. He's very good. He's he's my favourite male director for portraying the like horrible things that women have had to go through. Right, okay. Yeah, yeah. He's incredibly adept at that. He's a very emotionally open director, and I think it's because he very rarely does he flinch. Um which is weird because his name is so close to flinch. Yeah. Um but it but the David. What? The the shot where um Ben Horn is is walking towards this new girl in one eye jacks, and the camera is moving as well, and David Lynch doesn't cut away, yeah, he doesn't move round to see Ben's reaction. You are forced to look at this scared young girl. Uh and it the camera just gets closer and closer and closer. The music is like ominous but not overpowering, it's not too directive, it's all quite subtle in a way, but also the emotions of it are so heightened. I think it's a really effective um piece of filmmaking, and it comes so early on in what is otherwise quite like a funny episode. Yeah, yeah. Right? So, I mean it all comes from from Cooper, right? I don't think there's anything else. Any other scenes that are funny apart from his, because we get I I I I find your mileage may vary. Um I find the Nadine stuff quite funny. Where she's trying to invent the silent drape runners.
SPEAKER_02Now, yes, okay, but there's also a darkness behind that because I feel that that she's quite um troubled, right?
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. So, you know. I don't know that we've mentioned Nadine before. It's it's it's Big Ed's wife and she's got an eye patch. So just for listeners who are maybe also struggling to keep track of which character's which, like we are. We definitely are.
SPEAKER_02Uh now obviously we know from like the first episode, the pilot, um she's like a curtain twitcher, so she's she's constantly looking at her curtain, so she needs to clearly need silent drapes.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's interesting, yeah. But it's also I guess also she's like clearly very obsessed, and I think there's there's always something sad or dark about obsession, yeah, and it it often fills the gap of something else, and maybe she suspects that Ed is seeing Norma. Yeah, you know, and maybe she's just trying to paper over that crack. But I do find the whole the idea of it quite funny, and then the thing that she gets so angry that she bends the metal on her workout thing is is quite funny. Yeah. Um but yeah, uh on on the whole, it's quite it's it's a relatively fun episode. It's just the one-eyed Jack stuff is um The one-eyed Jack stuff.
SPEAKER_02We get we get the scene um with Bobby and I and I'll be honest, and I'm gonna admit now.
SPEAKER_01Did I make up the snake thing? Can you have I gone mad? He's not look he's not referred to as Snake in this episode. I was listening out. Yeah, same. But maybe they did maybe they did because we were introduced to another character called Mike later on, and maybe they did want to differentiate. Okay, maybe they did, maybe he is called Snake, and I do think we should keep calling it Snake. Yeah, I think we should. Yeah, Bobby and Snake. Um the whole drug dealer. Yeah, they're driving to the woods to meet um it's it's not to meet Leo, is it? It's to pick up the cocaine that they are owed, but Leo is there and kind of ambushes uh them in a way. But not alone. Yeah, there's a a figure figure in a tree, yeah. Yeah. Which I'd forgotten about. Yeah. Uh and that is quite that was quite scary. Yeah, just the way he kind of disappears back behind the tree, it was interesting and alarming.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so there's that that whole thing, we get you know a bit more information about maybe the deal that they've been doing. Um and then but then you know, we were saying it's a funny episode, because we obviously have Dale Cooper's uh technique of deducing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Sorry, just a note on the Leo. I loved how it was lit. What where he kept shining the torch on his own face, he kept shining the torch on his own face, yeah. But then whenever he shined it on someone else's face, he was lit by the residual light of that, and it was just kind of a weird orange glow on his face, and it looked incredible. Yeah, they made him look really evil, yeah. And that's the scene where you get a better idea that like he knows something about Laura, and then yes, I think it might even be the next uh um yeah, the next sort of thing, right? Uh where where where Cooper um Oh no, no, you don't know because Leo also tells Bobby that he knows that Shelly is seeing somebody. Oh, that's right. And Bobby's like, No way, do you know who it is? Then Leo says something else. Bobby's like, Do you know who it is? And the next scene I think is Bobby going to visit Shelly and finds out that that Leo's been uh beating her because she has bruises all over her face. And we were talking about Alan Wake and the the layout of the diner, yeah, and we were talking about Alan Wake about the vibe, you know, the Pacific Northwest, the rainy thing. There's another thing which obviously there's um there's that fake Twilight Zone show in Alan Wake called Night Springs, yes, and the whole point of that is like it's like a little take on the stuff that we're doing in Alan Wake, and Alan Wake has its own show that's a bit like Alan Wake. That's from Twin Peaks, yeah. We saw just the credits of it in this show, Invitation to Love is the soap opera that exists inside the universe of Twin Peaks, which is a soap opera. And and also Max Payne is a similar thing, doesn't it? I think so, yeah. Yeah, I can't remember that they do that a lot, but that's all from this, isn't it? That's all from this, yeah. I just thought that was a neat little uh thing that you would recognise. Invitation to love. Uh soon we I think at some point we see some like scenes from it. Okay, cool. Yeah, uh yeah. That's just a fascinating little thing that this heightened soap opera has its own little soap opera in it to kind of mirror the thing that they're that they're doing. Um but then yes, uh Agent Cooper gathers the troops, yeah, uh as it were. And this, yeah, you're right, this is very Mulder, isn't it? This whole thing. So he's learnt a new technique. Yeah. Well he's had it for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Uh it came came came to him in a dream a little while back uh when he became interested in uh Tibet and the Dalai Lama and transcendental meditation, which obviously is something that David Lynch is heavily into, transcendental meditation. Um these things aren't exactly alike, but uh I imagine he was thinking about transcendental meditation when he came up with this idea. Um what's the idea? Uh it's difficult to describe, I suppose. I love that bit where he's like he's gathered, they have all the donuts, which is which is funny, very funny because it's they're measuring distances between bottles and stuff like that. Got a blackboard outside, which I found very funny. Yes, they're in the woods, uh, and he starts his little presentation by he's like, I want to introduce you to a country called Tibet, and doesn't it wait to be in Tibet? And everyone leans forward like so funny.
SPEAKER_00Okay, actually, now I'm I'm interested enough. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it's going, yeah. And the technique you you explain the technique. So the technique, he's got he's got the the all the J's, because uh in Laura Pyro's diary it says Worried about meeting worried about meeting J nervous about meeting Jay tonight. So he's got all the first J's and last name J's. Which which I hadn't realised how many names had J in them, yeah, which is obviously a device for this scene. Oh and this scene also really works as like here's who's on the table so far, here's who we're looking at, it flashes back. Sorry, carry on. It really, really helped me. So this is their this this person, this is their face because it flashed them, and this is their connection to Laura Palmer. So that's such that's it. I nearly laughed at that line of dialogue where Cooper is explaining the technique, yeah, and he says to Harry, Oh Harry, when you say their name, also mention their connection to uh to Laura Palmer because I could just hear that like it's a line written by a studio executive or something, isn't it? Like it's just make sure everyone is really aware.
SPEAKER_02So they got the names written down.
SPEAKER_01Obviously, uh Hawk has to hold the uh the bucket of rocks with some kitchen mittens, of course. Why not? Yeah, that's never explained. Love it. Well, I it's never explained, but well, there's gonna be lots of things that aren't. Unexplained that I think we should I think this come up in episode seven. Okay. I I think why why do you think he needs to wear Kitchen mitz? Safety. Safety? Yeah. I think it's so he so his hands don't interfere with the vibrations. Yeah, like the the the sanctity of the rocks. Got it. Yeah. I'm on board. I think I think like um for this technique to work only Dale Cooper's hands can have touched it. Only the thrower can touch the stones, is my assumption. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Um he'll read out uh he's got a bottle however many feet away.
SPEAKER_02He's got a bucket of rocks, he's got names on the board. Now they get somebody to read out sorry, they get Harry. Yeah. To read out the names. Cooper will throw a rock at the bottle, and if he hits it, the receptionist who I've forgotten the name of buttons tick next to the name.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a person of interest, I suppose. Yeah. Now what's interesting is this technique, and they do go through every name, and he throws a rock. It does not change. At the end of the last episode, you and I were talking about Dr. Jacoby as being a suspect. And Leo. And Leo Johnson being a suspect. Yeah. Now they are the two names that the rock hits the bottle for. Yeah. So they're not doing anything to kind of throw you off a scent that we were already on or you're supposed to be on, or anything like that. It doesn't break for Dr. Jacoby, which is an important thing to note. Yeah. But it breaks for Leo Johnson. Yeah. Um what I love about that, the bottle breaks, and I'm like, oh, the bottle broke. Yeah. Like I'm just immediately on board with this technique. Yeah, but I mean everybody is he's he's confident. Like it's off the tree at one point. Yeah. He's like, oh well. Oh, didn't he? He's like, it didn't hurt. It didn't hurt.
SPEAKER_02He's great. Yeah, yeah. So I mean that was like a funny scene, and I guess it just kind of points you more in the direction of Leo.
SPEAKER_01It's funny strange more than it is funny, ha ha. Yes. I would say. I was quite into it. I'm like, well, who's the bottle gonna break? Yeah, right? You know, yeah, yeah. I'm on board.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we get those funny scenes, but then we have um and we've talked about uh uh Cooper's uh colleague turning up, the forensic uh guy who's a hard ass.
SPEAKER_01Albert Rosenfield, yeah, yeah. He arrives at the uh sheriff's office and uh they're he they're gonna do another autopsy because as he says, you know, it's been amateur hour of the thing. Yeah. Uh on the original autopsy. Now he's you know, he's a blunt guy, isn't he? He takes no shit. He's yeah, he takes no prisoners. He's you know, he's as Cooper says, lacking in some of the social niceties that you would expect. Um yeah, he's he's an asshole, but he's very good at his job. But Cooper like loves that. Yeah. Every time he's talking, he's like smiling. Yeah, check out this guy. He told Harry, like, look, this guy is gonna be a bit blunt, and then he's really blunt. He's like, hey, look, I told you. Yeah, love this. Look at this guy, yeah. But then Harry takes it on one side, doesn't he? Setting boundaries, yeah. Foundry king. So he don't fucking yeah, he said he's gonna smash his teeth out. Yeah, and he's like, Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Nice, incredible. So, yeah, we've got those scenes, but then we've got obviously the end scene, which we're obviously going to talk about. It'd be weird if we didn't. But the kind of extended grief scene of Flora Palmer's dad kind of and out there's a lot of people putting on music in this episode and vibing and dancing to the music.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of a lot of dancing, right? Remember Audrey in the um when she's with Donna in the Oh, there's some James and Donna stuff that you could not pay me to care about. Oh yeah, we'll just breeze back. Are we gonna be together? Yeah, they're like we'd love who cares. Some nice kissing, and that's fine. But when they um uh when uh Audrey Audrey goes to the diner to get a coffee because Cooper loves coffee, and we didn't talk about this last episode, and we should have done, which is the suggestion of some sexual tension between Dale Cooper and Audrey Horn, uh, who I wanna I just want to remind you that Dale Cooper is an FBI agent, probably around 30, I would say. In his 30s and Audrey Horn is a high school student, around 17. In the f in the in the So there's some you know, there's some tension there in the show in the show, in the show, in the show, in the show.
SPEAKER_02Yes, because in the last one he's talking about his breakfast order, and as he asks for his fruit to be freshly squeezed.
SPEAKER_01He looks at she she enters and he says freshly squeezed, and he looks at her, and then there's a kind of a lot of No, I think that specific that specific bit was a choice by the director of that episode, Dwayne Dunham, because he was convinced that that relationship should be the focus of the show. Right. Uh so he really lent heavily on those kind of moments between Cooper and Audrey. They don't actually interact in this episode, no, but Audrey is hung up on Cooper. She orders a coffee because he likes coffee. Exactly, yeah, and she orders it black because he likes it black. Yeah. And I don't know, the impression that I get from it is that she has a high school girl kind of crush on him, yeah. And I don't know that who knows what Cooper is thinking at this point. This is a guy that throws rocks at bottles to solve a murder case, so like who knows what he's thinking.
SPEAKER_02But what I find is there's a there's a word for it which you know because you like film when the music the music that we're hearing is part of is actually in the scene.
SPEAKER_01Diagetic. Diagetic. I was very surprised to learn that some of this music is diegetic. Yes. And it's the music that Audrey Horn likes. Yeah, the weird little slinky jazz stuff. Yeah. And but that's actually playing in the diner at that point because he puts on in the jukebox. That's playing like all the time in this series. Yeah. I love that they have three pieces of music and they use them again and again and again. Yeah. So we're hearing this music again, like we always have in during conversations, yeah. And it's almost like we brought out of it, like it's almost like a fourth wall break when she kind of goes, I love this music, and you're like, Oh, the music we're here, okay. Yeah. And it's apparently on the jukebox, which is nuts. Yeah. And then she starts to dance. She gets up and dances, which is odd to do in a diner, I would say. And it's it we're we're we're supposed to think it's odd. Yes. Because other people in the diner are like, Oh, what's she what's she doing? Look, look, they point at her, like, what's that about? Just a little kooky, a little ooky. And then the ooky's not a word, and then uh the scene just sort of just sort of ends in her dancing, a very quick like fade out. Um, which is which is interesting to me. Um it yeah, it feels like another one of those additions where David Lynch was maybe like, and and and you and now you get up and dance, you know. It's it seems like one of those things, but it also says a lot about her character, I think. You know, she's a she's a free spirit, yeah. She does what she feels like when she feels like it. Yeah, we already know that she ruined the deal with the Norwegians, yeah. So I guess it's it's in keeping with her character, but it is an odd moment. But you are right, there is a lot of there are a few characters in this episode, a few moments in this episode, where people are compelled to put on music and dance. Yeah. Um and the Leland Palmer one is a good example of that, yeah. Yeah, so he he puts on music, he's clearly in like anguish, and he picks up a picture of his daughter and kind of spins around as if he's dancing with his picture, but like grief screaming, he's crying at it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and it's really hard to watch. Yeah. Uh obviously the mother comes in, tries to get him to stop. We have to dance, we have to dance for Laura, we have to dance. And then and then the picture breaks and he and he cuts his hands on the glass and he's smearing the blood into the picture while his wife is screaming, what's happening in this house? Um quite a brutal depiction of grief, isn't it? It really is, yeah, right. And you the there's a sense of it that's like, what is happening in that house?
SPEAKER_02What's happening? There's something going on in that house of like where we're getting these weird things happening.
SPEAKER_01And I actually think the thing that's going on is just they are completely grief stricken, right? Honestly, and it's just being shown in a kind of way that's almost got this like force behind it. What else have we seen in that regard? What what are you lumping in the So the mother um whose name is Sarah Palmer where she had the vision well she saw Laura Palmer's face on um Donner on Donna and then she has the vision of the man at the end of the bed. On Vixen. Um reindeer stuff. Yeah. Well you can't say on Donner and then not do a few of the things. It's a good point. It's a good point.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, she has the vision of the guy at the end of the bed and sees Laura Palmer's face. Yeah. We also uh in the first ever episode at the end, she also has that vision of um the hand picking up the so there's a lot of strange stuff going on in that house. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Now at this point, like my mind is going to this is just a depiction of them going through horrific grief. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I think that gets uh subverted at the end, at the very end, when it gets very Twin Peaks. Which I think is the next sort of thing. The dream. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Cooper goes to bed. Because we get a bit of a connection between with that guy at the end of the bed, don't we? We do. Yeah. We learn his name, for instance. His name is Bob. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, he has a dream. It starts off. I guess it starts off in what we'll call the red room. Yep. Um the zigzag floor.
SPEAKER_01With the zigzag floor, the red curtains, uh, three chairs. Uh Dale's old. Dale Cooper is old. He's got PVA glue on his face to make him look old. Yeah, yeah, yeah like when you used to put it on your fingers and then it goes to the one-armed man. Yeah. Who recites the poem that has fire walk with me at the end of it. Yeah. Um he said look, he says a lot of stuff. He chats a lot of shit. He's got to get banged. Chat shit, get banged. That's what we've always said on this podcast. But but he does he does say things like, you know, we walked amongst people. They that they might have lived above a convenience store at one point. He did have some kind of communication with the devil in the form of a tattoo. That's right. And but but it's on the arm that has been removed. Yes. Um he introduces himself as Mike. Yeah. That's the other Mike. I don't think this one's called Snake. I mean, if they do it. I don't think either of them are called Snake. If this one ends up being called Snake as well, we've got a problem on our hands. Sorry, hand. He's only got one. Uh yeah, insensitive. Sorry. And then he introduces Bob, who is the guy from the end of the bet. Yeah. Um, who addresses both of these characters are addressing the camera directly. Well, no, but um Mike is off camera.
SPEAKER_02He's he's looking slightly to the left. Is it? Which I found interesting because Yeah, maybe maybe it is. I guess because we've now got HD, we can see that. Yeah, I think I think it's supposed to be. But I was gonna say then Bob is looking directly at us, but he's kind of that seems interesting because he's like, Oh, I've just heard Mike like in the air.
SPEAKER_01Where are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is weird. Um he also says that he will kill again. Yeah, right, yes. So did he kill is are we looking for Bob? Well, Bob looks like the suspect, right? Right. He looks like a person who would have done these horrible things. So after this dream, um uh Dale Cooper wakes up, gets immediately on the phone to Harry, says, Meet meet me in the morning because I know who killed Laura Palmer. Yeah, and it can wait till the absolute balls of the guy. Yeah. Like if he comes down the next morning and goes, I had a dream, and you're just like, come up, but woke me up in the middle of the night and got me up at 7am for breakfast. You son of a bitch. Yeah, I guess it's Barney the dinosaur. I don't know. Um But we've skipped over some of the dream then. Of course, because we enter a different bit of part of the dream. We enter a different part of the dream, we go back to the red room.
SPEAKER_00Cooper is still old. There is just a little guy.
SPEAKER_01Little guy in red vibrating in the corner, and it's it's it's this whole thing is unsettling, yeah, I would say. Yeah. Um and then it he starts to move towards Dell Cooper. I mean, the first thing he says, it's an incredible introduction, by the way, because he turns around, uh, he's got this all red suit on, and he says, let's rock. Yeah. Uh but he he says it That's how we should start every episode. He's you're not wrong. Right. Uh yes, he says it all backwards. They they're we get the first instance of backwards talk. Uh and he moves over to the chair and sits down next, like across from Cooper. Somebody else is there. And I guess you want to say Laura Palmer is there. Yeah. But that's actually maybe not the case. We're not actually that sure about it, are we? Are we no, because because the little guy, the might what are we calling him? The man from another place. The man from another Oh, that's I mean, that's fucking creepy as fuck, anyway.
SPEAKER_02The man from another place in it does introduce her as his cousin, and that it just looks like Laura Palmer.
SPEAKER_01But doesn't she look like Laura Palmer? Yeah. And I think Cooper, who is the only person who's talking forward, yeah, says, but it is Laura Palmer, and addresses her, aren't you Laura Palmer? And Laura Palmer talking in that backward speak says something I'm gonna paraphrase all of these things, so sorry for long, long time Twin Peaks watchers who know these lines off by heart. Um sometimes I feel like her. Uh isn't it? It's it's like I feel like her, but sometimes my arms bend back. Yeah. I don't know what we really know what that means. It's something though, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is because I mean the whole backwards speak is unsettling.
SPEAKER_01Um the way that and then especially the guy from another place, the guy, little guy from another place, will say a line and look up and smile. Because because the scene is obviously they've played backwards, they learn how to say the word and they play it backwards. The radio head of it all. Yeah. But they're but they're so their movements are off as well. Yes. And that and that gives another level of it just it's all a little bit uncanny. Yeah. And um the man from another place takes pauses halfway through sentences, yeah. Um, which I think really lends something to the feel of the thing. It's actually just a technical thing, which is that he couldn't learn the whole phrase in one go, so he'll do half of it, and then someone will shout the next bit and he'll copy that phonetically. Right. So that's what that is. Yeah, yeah. But it does lend to the whole thing, and he's saying things um like, I've got some good news for you, but that gum you like is going to come back in style.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um what else does he say? Well then he's got some words of wisdom for sure.
SPEAKER_01He talks about there being music in the air, right? Of course. Where we're from the they can hear bird song and uh the sweet music in the air. Yeah. And he starts to dance to music that is very similar to what we hear in things, very similar to the music that Audrey put on. So that's the third time in this episode alone that somebody has gotten up and gone out of their way to dance to music, which I think is an interesting connection. Like a compulsion, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a little bridge between this dream place and the real place. Um and while he's dancing in the m in the middle of strobe lights, which adds a really weird thing, uh the the person who's not Laura Palmer or maybe is Laura Palmer, or is maybe the man from another place's cousin, or is Dale Cooper's. I mean you've got to remember this is Dale Cooper's dream. So it's, you know, um she could just be uh his projection of Laura Palmer. Um gets up, slowly more moves towards Dale Cooper, kisses him, but you've got to think, you know, I don't know what's going on in Dale Cooper's head at this point, it is his dream, remember? Yeah. Um and then whispers something in his ear that we can't hear. That's right. The backwards talk is subtitled. Um but we don't hear the whispering, and then he wakes up. And that's when he says he knows. And that's when he calls Harry and goes, I know who killed Laura Palmer. But what what's your what what's your whole take on that that scene? It's very different to anything that we've seen in the show so far. It's the first sort of very surreal thing that we um that we see. There are ties back to what we've seen so far. So you obviously boom, we now know that the guy at the end of the bed is called Bob. We know that the m the guy with one arm is called Mike and is of interest, I suppose. Yeah. He's involved in some kind of way. Well, again, do we know we don't know this is what his dream said. Hey, hey, this is very true, right? So Dale Cooper knows about the the man with one arm. Yeah. Because Hawke reported it to him earlier, said there was a man with one arm in the hospital, and he's very interested in that. He's like, a guy with one arm. Did you question him? He's like, No, he got away. He's like, okay, we'll remain, you know, with Renette. Um so maybe, yeah, maybe he's primed to dream about the one-armed man. He's not primed to dream about the guy from the end of the bed that Sarah Palmer saw. Right. Killer Bob, by the way. Yes, indeed. Now are you sort of asking me what that kind of represents of what it's saying? I'm just oh sorry, uh another link back to the real world is uh that we get um a shot of we return to a shot of the fan, ceiling fan, uh in the Laura Palmer House household, but Sarah Palmer's running down the stairs in like a strobe motion. There's just all these little links back to things we've seen. We also see um the half of the necklace in a mound of dirt surrounded by candles, which we know to be from the murder scene. Yeah. Um so there's all these images that we've seen that are coming into Cooper's dreams, some that he knows about and some that he doesn't. And and there's there's that bit of it, and then there's the red room section of it all. And yeah, I'm just wondering how that stuff makes you feel. I know you were expecting stuff like that to a degree, but it try and put yourself in the position of someone who has been watching this for the first time and like they've never seen anything like this, and it's week on week, this is their third week watching something called Twin Peaks. Yeah, and they're like, what the fuck was the last five minutes of that about? Yeah, exactly. That must have been quite alarming.
SPEAKER_02I mean, um, yeah, I mean that it kind of gives an air of potential supernatural stuff going on into people's dreams and stuff. The way I mean, I don't know what the way I kind of the way I kind of viewed it is that he's already talked in the same episode that he stuff comes to him in dreams. Yes, of course, yeah. And then we get this, and I wonder if this is kind of a depiction of how his mind puts together information that he is already because we we get snatches of things that have happened already, um, but it's kind of all smushed together in dream logic, right?
SPEAKER_01There it's like a mind palace. Yeah. So you think like maybe I don't want to put words in your mouth, but maybe the red room is somewhere that Cooper goes to put information together. To make sense of it all, yeah. And obviously the way that's kind of viewed is it's kind of very surreal map. But I mean that's what dreams are like, right? Dreams are very surreal, yeah. Um so maybe this information of Mike and Bob and stuff, he already kind of has from something somewhere, and that's coming through, and that's how it's all coming to him, and maybe that's how he kind of knows this is I know who the killer is. Well, I suppose something that we haven't really mentioned in the last few episodes is of course Cooper is there because this is potentially another victim in a serial killer case. Yeah, right, of course. So all all of the Bob, the mic stuff might be stuff that he actually all has known from previous cases, previous cases, just that we don't know what he knows and what he doesn't. Very true, yeah. Uh so that's sort of what I kind of get from it. Um I I can only imagine what it was like watching this. Right, I was gonna say, now outside of the plot and what you think the function of it is, yeah. It's rad. I think it's fucking cool. It's fucking mental, yeah. Like uh to have that stuff on TV in like 1990, and just this episode as a whole, I was I was looking up like so so Law and Order started in nineteen ninety. Right. And people were very used to things like Columbo and those kind of procedural things, and obviously Law and Order is very heavily like. This is how you investigate a case and then we take it to court and this is how you try the case and you know all of that stuff. This is how you catch a criminal through the means of the law. And I love that this is another procedural on at the same time that is like we catch criminals by throwing rocks at bottles and having dreams, actually. I think that's that's rad. I don't know if there's loads of shows that have been like that before. Very cool. You have there's usually a delineation. You have stuff that's like the Twilight Zone, you have sci-fi stuff, you have Outer Limits, and then you have Columbo and Law and Order. This blend of the two is very interesting, I think. Yeah. Um Yeah, I love the Red Room stuff. I think the set design of it is amazing. Yeah. I love how he in general he just lets images linger like that. The thing where they're just the three of them are just sat there and you're just looking at the room and that shadow moves across the I was so invested in that. Yeah, you're like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. What is it? I don't know. It's like a it's like a square thing. It's it's something like a page. Yeah, my I I've I think it's something that lives in that dream room or something. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But it's something, isn't it? It really uh drags you into a whole kind of uh a whole kind of vibe. Uh it's definitely it's I think it's a watershed moment. Uh I think you're either in or you're out at this point. You pop you yeah, it's not right. I think that's that way to see it again. Yeah, some people might just be like this is not going the way that this is where I want it to go. Um and some people will be will be very intrigued by that. Yeah. I imagine everybody tunes in next week anyway. Just because the last line. Well, just because the last line is I know who killed Laura Palmer. Um I imagine lots of people will go like, well, I'll watch it next week just to see who killed Laura Palmer. So I hope he tries to put them off even further in the next episode. Like Well, uh I mean I have to ask you the question at this point in the episode. Yeah. Who killed Laura Palmer?
SPEAKER_02So we're we're not so uh Leo and the psychiatrist, we are just in the same position as those.
SPEAKER_01So let's say Killer Bob. The guy called Killer Bob. The the Bob said he could he'll kill again. That one. That guy. Yeah, I think it might be that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, killer Bob. I I get away with the horrible vibe. I get a vibe about him. I don't know. I've been throwing rocks at bottles, I've got an idea. Horrible vibe actually, because that's just what that guy looks like. He's I can't remember his exact uh position on the crew. I will come back next week with the actual position that he had. But he is just a guy from the crew that was doing something on set, and David Lynch was like, You look creepy as fuck. Do you want to be in the show? Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Which I think you can tell because the guy's not really an actor. No, right? Yeah. Um, yeah. Let's go with uh that guy, the one that they're pointing at and saying this is probably the killer because okay. But do you feel that in your heart? You feel that's that's I don't feel that's it's that easy. But that's where you are right now. Yeah, I'd say so. Like it's pointing towards that whole plot line that which you're about to, I guess, dig into those two guys a bit more. Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. I will say, you said you're either on board or you're not. I am so fucking in. Are you on board? Yeah, that's so nice. That's good. So good. That's good. Um cool. Well then we'll leave it. Uh we'll leave it there for now. Uh I think. Um, just a little uh coffee update. I think in this one he says damn good cup of coffee. Yeah. So the jury is still out, and we will remain at that damn coffee. Damn coffee. Um come visit us on the socials. Why not? Hey, why not? If you've got five minutes, why not? Just come just see us and don't worry. Yeah, well. Spoilers. Uh we're gonna try not to post any spoilers. Yeah, of course. But well, I mean so we will, we will post spoilers, but we'll post spoilers that are for episodes that we've watched up to. Yes, of course. So there'll be spoilers for this episode on the socials. Yes. Probably. Maybe. Also, yeah we might not post anything on the socials. No. Who could be bothered? But come along anyway, please. Please. Please. But in the meantime, we're gonna go and watch uh episode four. Do you know what would be really professional? If we had it lined up. If I had it lined up and I could tell you what the um We're finding out, we've never done this before. What the what the next episode's called. Well, technically it's called episode three. Oh, okay, okay. Uh so episode season one, episode four, yeah. Uh is called Rest in Pain. Oh, rad. Cool, it's kind of metal, isn't it? Yeah. All right. Uh all right. Uh see you next time. Next week, yeah. Bye. Rest in pain, sons of bitches.